Comments on: BPM Think Tank Day 2: Panel on Business Value of Process Standards http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/ BPM, Enterprise 2.0 and technology trends in business. Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:15:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bits & Notes http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5116 Bits & Notes Fri, 02 Jun 2006 03:09:20 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/#comment-5116 <strong>On the differences of BPEL and XPDL</strong> Go Flow : The BPMN-XPDL-BPEL value chain by Keith Swenson BPM Think Tank Day 2: Panel on Business Value of Process Standards by Sandy Kemsley BPM Think Tank Day 3: XPDL technology roundtable by Sandy Kemsley On the differences of BPEL and XPDL

Go Flow : The BPMN-XPDL-BPEL value chain by Keith Swenson
BPM Think Tank Day 2: Panel on Business Value of Process Standards by Sandy Kemsley
BPM Think Tank Day 3: XPDL technology roundtable by Sandy Kemsley

]]> By: Go Flow http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5115 Go Flow Sun, 28 May 2006 23:21:27 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/#comment-5115 <strong>The BPMN-XPDL-BPEL value chain</strong> I got the chance to participate on a panel session at the BPM Think Tank in Arlington VA on May 24 2006 on the subject of BPM Standards. Richard Mark Soley was on one end representing OMG and the BPMN standard. John Evdemon from Microsoft was on the... The BPMN-XPDL-BPEL value chain

I got the chance to participate on a panel session at the BPM Think Tank in Arlington VA on May 24 2006 on the subject of BPM Standards. Richard Mark Soley was on one end representing OMG and the BPMN standard. John Evdemon from Microsoft was on the…

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5114 Sandy Kemsley Thu, 25 May 2006 12:44:00 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/#comment-5114 John, thanks for the clarification -- as I mentioned, I was sure to have missed some key points since there was so much discussion going on during the panel. I was aware of BPEL providing only a subset of what can be modelled in BPMN, which is exactly what makes me so skeptical of its widespread acceptance in the full BPM space (which include human-facing BPM) in spite of the apparent drive to get it on every vendors' checklist of features. My question from yesterday's roundtable with you, which I haven't yet blogged about, remains around the feasibility of the coexistence of XPDL, BPDM and BPEL (assuming that BPEL is not used as an execution language, but as an import/export language as Microsoft, IBM and others do) in a somewhat overcrowded and overlapping standards space. John, thanks for the clarification — as I mentioned, I was sure to have missed some key points since there was so much discussion going on during the panel.

I was aware of BPEL providing only a subset of what can be modelled in BPMN, which is exactly what makes me so skeptical of its widespread acceptance in the full BPM space (which include human-facing BPM) in spite of the apparent drive to get it on every vendors’ checklist of features.

My question from yesterday’s roundtable with you, which I haven’t yet blogged about, remains around the feasibility of the coexistence of XPDL, BPDM and BPEL (assuming that BPEL is not used as an execution language, but as an import/export language as Microsoft, IBM and others do) in a somewhat overcrowded and overlapping standards space.

]]> By: John, again http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5113 John, again Thu, 25 May 2006 05:56:47 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/#comment-5113 Another point of clarification. :) When XPDL came up in the panel I admitted that I hadn't looked at it in a few years and the last time I did look it didn't support things like web services. Keith confirmed that the new version did support web services and was designed to support a 1:1 mapping to/from BPMN. After hearing these facts I stated that future BPEL work may want to establish a liaison with XPDL efforts to avoid possible duplication of efforts. BPEL is a subset of BPMN - I stated several times that it is possible to model a process in BPMN that cannot be represented in BPEL. (BPEL is also a subset of most integration vendors' capabilities as well.) This fact doesn't necessarily meant to diminish the value that BPEL can provide - I was merely trying to impress upon people unfamilar with BPEL that exporting a BPMN process model into BPEL might not be lossless. Another point of clarification. :)

When XPDL came up in the panel I admitted that I hadn’t looked at it in a few years and the last time I did look it didn’t support things like web services. Keith confirmed that the new version did support web services and was designed to support a 1:1 mapping to/from BPMN.

After hearing these facts I stated that future BPEL work may want to establish a liaison with XPDL efforts to avoid possible duplication of efforts.

BPEL is a subset of BPMN – I stated several times that it is possible to model a process in BPMN that cannot be represented in BPEL. (BPEL is also a subset of most integration vendors’ capabilities as well.) This fact doesn’t necessarily meant to diminish the value that BPEL can provide – I was merely trying to impress upon people unfamilar with BPEL that exporting a BPMN process model into BPEL might not be lossless.

]]> By: John http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5112 John Thu, 25 May 2006 05:44:29 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/05/bpm-think-tank-day-2-panel-on-business-value-of-process-standards/#comment-5112 Point of clarification, please: I gave it a "3" because the spec is still under development. Attempts to use BPEL in a production environment at this point in time are, in my personal opinion, a bit premature. I have seen many RFPs that require integration servers to have a BPEL adoption plan as part of the product roadmap. This does not necessarily mean these implementations will be using BPEL today - they are looking to the future when the spec becomes standardized and is widely adopted. I went on to say that we desperately need an interoperable process model. BPEL seems to fulfill this need with the momentum and backing of both large and small integration vendors. Once the BPEL 2.0 spec is completed, standardized and broadly and implemented I would move the score to a "5", as I indicated on this morning's panel. Sorry if I wasn't clearer about this. Point of clarification, please:

I gave it a “3″ because the spec is still under development.

Attempts to use BPEL in a production environment at this point in time are, in my personal opinion, a bit premature. I have seen many RFPs that require integration servers to have a BPEL adoption plan as part of the product roadmap. This does not necessarily mean these implementations will be using BPEL today – they are looking to the future when the spec becomes standardized and is widely adopted.

I went on to say that we desperately need an interoperable process model. BPEL seems to fulfill this need with the momentum and backing of both large and small integration vendors. Once the BPEL 2.0 spec is completed, standardized and broadly and implemented I would move the score to a “5″, as I indicated on this morning’s panel.

Sorry if I wasn’t clearer about this.

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