Comments on: Q&A about BPM http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/ BPM, Enterprise 2.0 and technology trends in business. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:33:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5254 Sandy Kemsley Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:11:58 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5254 Neil, thanks for the comment, I only just fished it out of the "pending" bucket since I've been deluged with spam the past several days. It certainly looks like Cordys is providing the workflow functionality within the Webex offering, although that's not as full featured as I would hope for a complete SaaS BPMS. Neil, thanks for the comment, I only just fished it out of the “pending” bucket since I’ve been deluged with spam the past several days.

It certainly looks like Cordys is providing the workflow functionality within the Webex offering, although that’s not as full featured as I would hope for a complete SaaS BPMS.

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5253 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:55:11 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5253 Roeland, that's a great reminder for me to check out Cordys more closely. Bruce Silver talked about it on his blog a bit, but I've never seen their product. Roeland, that’s a great reminder for me to check out Cordys more closely. Bruce Silver talked about it on his blog a bit, but I’ve never seen their product.

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5252 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:54:28 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5252 Philip, thanks for the follow-up. I'm completely on board with your reasons for a web-based process modeller, that's why I push for it every chance that I get. As an aside, over 30% of Column 2 readers use Firefox, so you might want to hurry up on that Firefox support. :) Philip, thanks for the follow-up. I’m completely on board with your reasons for a web-based process modeller, that’s why I push for it every chance that I get.

As an aside, over 30% of Column 2 readers use Firefox, so you might want to hurry up on that Firefox support. :)

]]> By: Roeland Loggen http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5251 Roeland Loggen Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:58:45 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5251 A possible better answer on Q3 (and I have no commercial relation with the company): Cordys provides a full Ajax browser client for process modelling and service/SOA linking. Roeland Loggen A possible better answer on Q3 (and I have no commercial relation with the company):

Cordys provides a full Ajax browser client for process modelling and service/SOA linking.

Roeland Loggen

]]> By: Philip Larson http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5250 Philip Larson Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:50:58 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5250 Believe it or not, the screenshots you link to are screenshots of our 100% thin process modeling environment. It is surprising at first glance because we've mimicked some of the standard client application look and feel (toolbars, left-nav, etc.) to make it as easy to use as possible. We win a lot of deals based on ease of use. Drag and drop, zoom, cut & paste - all the power of a client application provided seamlessly over the web. In fact, Appian has always had a thin-client approach to process modeling because we believe in getting process management capabilities in the hands of more users, particularly on the business side. What better way to distribute process design capabilities throughout an organization than over the Internet? No client installs, much simpler upgrade paths. The issue you mention with browsers is a common one for cutting edge web technologies. To do complex graphic rendering over the web you have to use vector-based languages like Vector Markup Language (VML) or Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). Unfortunately, VML is used in IE and SVG is used in Firefox. They are both "standards" but each browser only supports one! This means that until they coordinate a little better, web development companies are stuck having to duplicate code with switch statements in order to support both browsers. This is what Google Maps does, for instance. To see a simple example of how a statement in VML would be written in SVG, take a look at the wikipedia entry for VML <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Markup_Language" rel="nofollow">here</a>. We've got plans to support Firefox in this manner but figured we'd start with the browser that clearly dominates business desktops - Internet Explorer. Believe it or not, the screenshots you link to are screenshots of our 100% thin process modeling environment. It is surprising at first glance because we’ve mimicked some of the standard client application look and feel (toolbars, left-nav, etc.) to make it as easy to use as possible. We win a lot of deals based on ease of use. Drag and drop, zoom, cut & paste - all the power of a client application provided seamlessly over the web.

In fact, Appian has always had a thin-client approach to process modeling because we believe in getting process management capabilities in the hands of more users, particularly on the business side. What better way to distribute process design capabilities throughout an organization than over the Internet? No client installs, much simpler upgrade paths.

The issue you mention with browsers is a common one for cutting edge web technologies. To do complex graphic rendering over the web you have to use vector-based languages like Vector Markup Language (VML) or Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). Unfortunately, VML is used in IE and SVG is used in Firefox. They are both “standards” but each browser only supports one! This means that until they coordinate a little better, web development companies are stuck having to duplicate code with switch statements in order to support both browsers. This is what Google Maps does, for instance. To see a simple example of how a statement in VML would be written in SVG, take a look at the wikipedia entry for VML here. We’ve got plans to support Firefox in this manner but figured we’d start with the browser that clearly dominates business desktops - Internet Explorer.

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5249 Sandy Kemsley Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:13:36 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5249 Philip, thanks for your comment about Appian. The <a href="http://www.appian.com/screenshots/process5_screen.html" rel="nofollow">screenshots</a> on your website show a desktop Process Modeler rather than a web-based version. In the Forrester report that you have on your site, it mentions that you do have a fully web-based process modeler, but notes that it only works in IE, which implies that there's something non-standard about your implementation. Are there any updates since then, or can you elaborate? Philip, thanks for your comment about Appian. The screenshots on your website show a desktop Process Modeler rather than a web-based version. In the Forrester report that you have on your site, it mentions that you do have a fully web-based process modeler, but notes that it only works in IE, which implies that there’s something non-standard about your implementation. Are there any updates since then, or can you elaborate?

]]> By: Philip Larson http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5248 Philip Larson Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:50:05 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5248 Regarding question 3, there is a vendor that has a 100% web-based product, including modeling and administration. Appian. Our BPM Suite, including the fully BPMN-compliant Appian Process Modeler is entirely thin requiring zero downloads (no Java or ActiveX). We decided to take this approach because we figured a modeling environment in an IDE would never be suitable for a business user. What business user has an Integrated Development Environment on their desktop? The browser-based approach makes it much easier to distribute process-modeling capabilities throughout an organization and, regarding question 4, positions us nicely when the market for BPM as a service does take off. Regarding question 3, there is a vendor that has a 100% web-based product, including modeling and administration. Appian. Our BPM Suite, including the fully BPMN-compliant Appian Process Modeler is entirely thin requiring zero downloads (no Java or ActiveX). We decided to take this approach because we figured a modeling environment in an IDE would never be suitable for a business user. What business user has an Integrated Development Environment on their desktop? The browser-based approach makes it much easier to distribute process-modeling capabilities throughout an organization and, regarding question 4, positions us nicely when the market for BPM as a service does take off.

]]> By: Neil Ward-Dutton http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5247 Neil Ward-Dutton Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:12:13 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2006/10/qa-about-bpm/#comment-5247 Hey Sandy, I'm not sure if the work that Cordys is doing with Webex would fit your inquirer's view of "BPMS as a service" - but there's certainly some hosted process orchestration stuff going on there. See here: <a href="http://www.brsilver.com/wordpress/2006/09/27/cordys-provides-the-bpm-behind-webex-connect/" rel="nofollow">http://www.brsilver.com/wordpress/2006/09/27/cordys-provides-the-bpm-behind-webex-connect/</a> Hey Sandy,

I’m not sure if the work that Cordys is doing with Webex would fit your inquirer’s view of “BPMS as a service” - but there’s certainly some hosted process orchestration stuff going on there. See here:

http://www.brsilver.com/wordpress/2006/09/27/cordys-provides-the-bpm-behind-webex-connect/

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