Comments on: Good and bad government processes http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/ BPM, Enterprise 2.0 and technology trends in business. Sat, 06 Sep 2008 01:09:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5848 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:00:07 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5848 Vilas, great point -- I have to wonder what their metrics are for the visa issuing process. Vilas, great point — I have to wonder what their metrics are for the visa issuing process.

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5847 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:55:36 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5847 My next trip is New York, but the NYC consulate has outsourced their visa process (no doubt to improve the business process) and the outsourcer doesn't accept applications from non-residents. Also, it's a quick trip so no time to do it unless it literally takes less than an hour. Next one after that is Orlando, not exactly a hotspot for Indian consulates. My next trip is New York, but the NYC consulate has outsourced their visa process (no doubt to improve the business process) and the outsourcer doesn’t accept applications from non-residents. Also, it’s a quick trip so no time to do it unless it literally takes less than an hour.

Next one after that is Orlando, not exactly a hotspot for Indian consulates.

]]> By: Jesper Joergensen http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5845 Jesper Joergensen Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:19:16 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5845 Hi Sandy, Don't cancel your trip just yet. The consulate in SF will process you in one day. You drop off your passport in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon. I am not a US citizen nor resident and it works for me, so it should work for you too and I imagine it should work in any US city with an Indian consulate. Check instructions on http://www.cgisf.org/ Last time I went (this Apr) the lines were much shorter than in the past (they used to be like what you described), so overall you should be in for a better experience... Hi Sandy,

Don’t cancel your trip just yet. The consulate in SF will process you in one day. You drop off your passport in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon. I am not a US citizen nor resident and it works for me, so it should work for you too and I imagine it should work in any US city with an Indian consulate.

Check instructions on http://www.cgisf.org/

Last time I went (this Apr) the lines were much shorter than in the past (they used to be like what you described), so overall you should be in for a better experience…

]]> By: Vilas http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5841 Vilas Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:39:10 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5841 Sorry to hear your experience with Indian embassy. A point I observed about Indian systems is there are no working metric collection and feedback mechanisms. So top decision makers are not even aware of problems. To put a metric collection program and feedback mechanisms in place, would be a good beginning. Even best laid processes deteorate with time and only feedback and metrics can point out health of a process. Sorry to hear your experience with Indian embassy. A point I observed about Indian systems is there are no working metric collection and feedback mechanisms. So top decision makers are not even aware of problems. To put a metric collection program and feedback mechanisms in place, would be a good beginning.
Even best laid processes deteorate with time and only feedback and metrics can point out health of a process.

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5840 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:33:50 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5840 Michael, I read about your experiences with the birth certificate on your blog -- funny, but only because it's not happening to me. :) I'm not sure that your German banking experience is all that unique; when I lived in the US for a few years, I had similar problems getting a bank account and credit cards at first, and there seemed to be a huge mistrust on the bank's side because I didn't have a US credit rating, as if they thought that the entire planet had one by proxy or something. The Canadian and US banking systems are undeniably closer than the German and US ones are, but getting information about my accounts across any border proved difficult. Derek, not surprising that the UK IRIS clearance is so fast, because it's getting you into a country for which you hold a passport. NEXUS is for travel into a country for which I don't hold a passport, namely the US. It also works for clearance back into Canada, but I didn't require an interview with the Canadian officials because I hold a Canadian passport. The problem that I experienced with the Indian consulate (and that Michael is having with the NYC govt) is that the customer is *not* in control -- the government agency holds a monopoly on what we want, and the only way to get it is for the customer to try and figure out what the process is so that we can provide the proper inputs in order to get the result that we want. Since the processes are completely opaque to the customer, we really have no idea what those inputs should be, since they're not always what is advertised. The drivers for improved processes in government organizations are much different than those for private industry: although they may have the same efficiency goals (or not), they're not, in general, worried about losing their customers so don't bother to factor their concerns into the process. Michael, I read about your experiences with the birth certificate on your blog — funny, but only because it’s not happening to me. :) I’m not sure that your German banking experience is all that unique; when I lived in the US for a few years, I had similar problems getting a bank account and credit cards at first, and there seemed to be a huge mistrust on the bank’s side because I didn’t have a US credit rating, as if they thought that the entire planet had one by proxy or something. The Canadian and US banking systems are undeniably closer than the German and US ones are, but getting information about my accounts across any border proved difficult.

Derek, not surprising that the UK IRIS clearance is so fast, because it’s getting you into a country for which you hold a passport. NEXUS is for travel into a country for which I don’t hold a passport, namely the US. It also works for clearance back into Canada, but I didn’t require an interview with the Canadian officials because I hold a Canadian passport.

The problem that I experienced with the Indian consulate (and that Michael is having with the NYC govt) is that the customer is *not* in control — the government agency holds a monopoly on what we want, and the only way to get it is for the customer to try and figure out what the process is so that we can provide the proper inputs in order to get the result that we want. Since the processes are completely opaque to the customer, we really have no idea what those inputs should be, since they’re not always what is advertised. The drivers for improved processes in government organizations are much different than those for private industry: although they may have the same efficiency goals (or not), they’re not, in general, worried about losing their customers so don’t bother to factor their concerns into the process.

]]> By: Derek Mers http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5838 Derek Mers Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:46:01 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5838 Just to prove we all read - and again a constrasting experience for you. To get the british equivalent of Nexus (called IRIS) took all of 15 minutes while I was waiting in the lounge to have my Iris scanned and linked to my passport (and that included having 2 people in front of me int he queue). No messy interview ... but then we are not talking about the paranoid behaviour of the US immigration agents. And in a sense, the posting and Michael's response just now, talk to the issue of "Customers and Business Processes - Difficult Domains to Integrate" ... my most recent white paper. Point is that for efficiency purposes, you generally want customers to behave in a certain way. Problem is that for most businesses (i.e. where no monopoly exists), the customer is really the one in control. If they dont like your process they end up going elsewhere. So we as customers expect the vendor of a product or service, to vary the process to fit in with our needs. A big challenge for those modeling and automating processes. You can find the paper on the BPM Focus web site if you want to pursue the line of discussion. Just to prove we all read - and again a constrasting experience for you. To get the british equivalent of Nexus (called IRIS) took all of 15 minutes while I was waiting in the lounge to have my Iris scanned and linked to my passport (and that included having 2 people in front of me int he queue). No messy interview … but then we are not talking about the paranoid behaviour of the US immigration agents.

And in a sense, the posting and Michael’s response just now, talk to the issue of “Customers and Business Processes - Difficult Domains to Integrate” … my most recent white paper. Point is that for efficiency purposes, you generally want customers to behave in a certain way. Problem is that for most businesses (i.e. where no monopoly exists), the customer is really the one in control. If they dont like your process they end up going elsewhere. So we as customers expect the vendor of a product or service, to vary the process to fit in with our needs. A big challenge for those modeling and automating processes. You can find the paper on the BPM Focus web site if you want to pursue the line of discussion.

]]> By: Michael zur Muehlen http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5836 Michael zur Muehlen Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:01:47 +0000 http://www.column2.com/2007/10/good-and-bad-government-processes/#comment-5836 Hi Sandy, I can sympathize with your experiences. We've received the passport for my daughter in two weeks, but the NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene has been unable for 3 months now to change a capital Z into a lower case z on her birth certificate. I guess the processing time for this case is 0.1% of the overall transaction time (I've ranted about that on my blog)... My suspicion is that culture plays a big role in these situations. I've just arrived in Paris after speaking at a conference in Poland, and I added a 4 h layover in Frankfurt to open a new checking account (not very satisfied with my old bank, but that's a different story). So I show up at the local branch of Citibank, to find a line of 4 people that take about 20 minutes to be processed by the information desk. Then I'm told that a Passport and Drivers License are insufficient as proof of foreign residency, opening an account takes "about an hour", I should have made an appointment in the first place (mind you, I wanted a checking account, not a mortgage!), and all of their CSRs are "incredibly busy". While I'm having my little spat every 5 minutes an intern shows up and interrupts the transaction with some nonsensical question which slows the whole process down further. I'm a Citibank customer in the states, so I offered them to call my branch and have them fax an account statement over, but the answer was "we can't do that". In the end I had to leave without success. In Germany the trains may still run on time (if their drivers don't strike), but this "we don't do flexibility" attitude makes everyday transactions nearly unbearable. Purely focusing on efficiency may thus be detrimental. I think the key is to figure out what the goals of your customers are, and to make sure that your process goals and structure are aligned with them - only then will you create a satisfactory customer experience. Best Michael Hi Sandy,

I can sympathize with your experiences. We’ve received the passport for my daughter in two weeks, but the NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene has been unable for 3 months now to change a capital Z into a lower case z on her birth certificate. I guess the processing time for this case is 0.1% of the overall transaction time (I’ve ranted about that on my blog)…

My suspicion is that culture plays a big role in these situations. I’ve just arrived in Paris after speaking at a conference in Poland, and I added a 4 h layover in Frankfurt to open a new checking account (not very satisfied with my old bank, but that’s a different story). So I show up at the local branch of Citibank, to find a line of 4 people that take about 20 minutes to be processed by the information desk. Then I’m told that a Passport and Drivers License are insufficient as proof of foreign residency, opening an account takes “about an hour”, I should have made an appointment in the first place (mind you, I wanted a checking account, not a mortgage!), and all of their CSRs are “incredibly busy”. While I’m having my little spat every 5 minutes an intern shows up and interrupts the transaction with some nonsensical question which slows the whole process down further. I’m a Citibank customer in the states, so I offered them to call my branch and have them fax an account statement over, but the answer was “we can’t do that”. In the end I had to leave without success.

In Germany the trains may still run on time (if their drivers don’t strike), but this “we don’t do flexibility” attitude makes everyday transactions nearly unbearable. Purely focusing on efficiency may thus be detrimental. I think the key is to figure out what the goals of your customers are, and to make sure that your process goals and structure are aligned with them - only then will you create a satisfactory customer experience.

Best

Michael

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