Comments on: OutSystems Agile Platform 5.0 Adds Process Modeling

By: Emil

Emil — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:38:28 +0000

Arni, could you share some info about wavemaker and BPM integration.

By: Arni

Arni — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:45:36 +0000

As usual Sandy you are absolutely correct in your analysis. As someone who has been instrumental in building real world BPM technology based applications we noticed this too. We rapidly build the processes and the forms but users still need a more focussed application rather than a generic worklist in many cases. RSS driven worklists etc work well but in many cases users like to see application specific UIs to get their job done. While some BPMs have started to move slowly along those lines (like Appian) it still becomes necessary to build applications as rapidly as you build the process using the suites. We have used RAD tools like Wavemaker and integrated them with traditional BPM suites. Out Systems looked real good and we have some engineers using this in the labs. I would like if this RAD environment were integrated with some BPM suites. Any BPM suite vendor care to comment?

By: Sandy Kemsley

Sandy Kemsley — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:32:07 +0000

Massimo, in my 2nd-to-last paragraph, I was clear to state that this does NOT offer full BPMS functionality, although it does offer some of the functions that you will find in a full-featured BPMS.

I’m not sure why you categorize this as “sequential workflow”, what is your reason for that?

By: Lucio Ferrao

Lucio Ferrao — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:52:04 +0000

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll make sure the this information is correctly delivered in the future.

Anyway, we have just published a document that maps BPMN 1.2 concepts into the Agile Platform language elements: http://www.outsystems.com/NetworkForums/ViewTopic.aspx?Topic=Agile-Platform-for-users-of-BPMN

It’s a great starting point to understand how to model processes in our platform if you are familiar with the standards. It should also help clearing the questions you raised.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first feedback was an orchestration note. An orchestration specifies an executable process that involves message exchanges with other systems. In the Agile Platform, the orchestration is usually designed with processes, and the messages are trivially exchanged using Web Services, custom integrations, existing databases. Am I missing something?

By: Massimo Dehlina

Massimo Dehlina — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:34:07 +0000

There is a basic difference between secuential workflow and BPM. The type of business scenarios that are handled by a (good) BPMS are too many to mention, but let’s not confuse the readers that a simple secuential workflow is called a BPM system!

By: Sandy Kemsley

Sandy Kemsley — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:51:20 +0000

Hi Lucio, thanks for your comment. I was told during the briefing that process activities were reusable, but processes were not. If that’s not accurate, then I’d be happy to see more about this. As for event handling, I assumed that it was done in the application, not in the process, but that’s exactly my point: there is little or no event handling *in the process* — I may not have been clear on what I meant when I discussed event handling.

By: Lucio Ferrao

Lucio Ferrao — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:23:20 +0000

It is always an honor to see OutSystems platform receiving praise.

As one of the responsible for the platform design I would just like to clear a few ideas about the process layer:
1-Processes can be used and reused in other processes like any other modulation tool;
2-Events in the OutSystems platform are a critical communication mechanism between applications and processes (or between processes), the reason why they are not so evident in the demos is because they are thrown by the application (not at the process level), and captured by generic Wait Activities, and Human Activities;
3-The reduced set of BPM elements and features (e.g. no visual swimlanes) was a design decision to simplify the modeling and execution language, as we try very hard to make it as unambiguous and accessible as possible.

Anyway, the most important idea is ‘to provide “good enough” process management for primarily human-facing processes, in the context of a web-based business application.’ This is exactly what we are constantly asked for by our customers, and I’m glad to see they are not alone

Regards,
Lúcio Ferrão
OutSystems R&D